Baseball HOF

[griffan]

I'm glad to see Tony Gwynn and Cal Jr. get into the HOF. Congrats to both.

But, how do you feel about the steroid issue surrounding Mark McGwire?

IMO, If he shouldn't be in the HOF because he used "performance enhancers" then neither should Barry Bonds along with several others. (Sammy Sosa, Rafael Palmiero, Jose Canseco and Ken Caminiti to name a few). Bonds is involved in the BALCO scandal up to his ears. You can't tell me that he isn't on the sauce. I believe that after Bonds retires a lot of stuff will come out and there will be evidence of a huge coverup. I have to believe that if Bonds, at the time the BALCO stuff hit the fan, was a reserve outfielder that he'd be banned from baseball by now. As it was he was chasing the all-time homerun record and I think MLBB didn't want to deal with the issue. Wait until Bonds retires, stops using the sauce, and ends up looking like Jimmy Walker on crack ... Then the DY-NO-MITE will explode.

The demarcation line for me is that McGwire had retired by the time the "performance enhancers" were banned. He was not doing anything illegal while he was playing as far as baseball was concerned. Do I like it? No I don't. But all this does for me is make the records that Ruth, Mays and Maris set mean a whole lot more.

IMO,The HOF votes need to be taken away from the Baseball Writers Association. There should be a committee made up of HOF members and executives of the HOF that vote the players in.

Why do I feel this way?

Boston's Jim Rice was the most feared power hitter in his era. His numbers are deserving of the HOF. There are players in the hall with numbers that aren't even close to Rice's. Why is Rice not in the HOF? Because most writers are still pissed that he was not one to give interviews. He was short with the reporters and didn't particularly like to give interviews. Several sportwriters have admitted that they won't vote for him simply because he was rude to them or refused to do an interview with them. That alone should prevent them from having a vote. Rice isn't alone either. There have been several players who were denied induction, or took a lot longer to get in, simply because the BBWA felt they were some sort of moral judge and jury.

In fact, some of the writers have admitted that McGwire's avoidance of the questions he was asked at the inquiry regarding the steroid issue led them not to vote for him.

The BBHOF is there to recognize and honor those players who have had a stellar career or have accomplished major milestones. It does not exist to be some type of moral standard for baseball. Let a player's actions on the field be the deciding factor on his acceptance or denial into the HOF. And let those decisions come from their peers.

Not a bunch of bitter a-holes who use their vote as a way of getting even.

And yes, I do feel that Pete Rose belongs in the HOF

I feel that if the selection process was performed by HOF members and executives from the HOF the players would be given a more honest chance of induction.

I don't know if I'd place McGwire as a first ballot inductee but he certainly belongs in the HOF within the next 2 years or so. If he's not then there's a problem. Rice belongs there as well.

Brian

[RedWings]

Excellent post, Brian. Fortunately for me, when baseball went on strike in '94 and deprived us of the World Series, I never came back. I can proudly say I have not watched one at bat since, and, I do not miss it at all.

However, it is still impossible to avoid the steroid scandal. Everytime you turn around it's Bonds this, Balco that, Sosa and McGwire are juicing, Palmaroid is a freak. Now THAT's baseball, eh? I think not.

If guys were doping, then screw 'em, they don't deserve the Hall. Cheaters don't deserve it. Of course, there are players in the various Halls of Fame with rather dubious on and off the field histories. Ty Cobb was not a stellar role model, but one hell of a baller. And that list is as long as your arm in all sports.

So yeah, there's jerks out there who are turds as people, but Hall of Famers as players. But to me, dopers/cheaters don't belong.

[griffan]

I see your point RW and I do agree fully, in principle.

If it was up to me none of the cheaters would be allowed in the HOF and their records would be stricken from the books. But that isn't gonna happen.

In fact, now that amphetamines are banned by MLB it casts another light on other MLB players.

For many, many, many years "Greenies" were available in the locker rooms of every MLB team. They were also used by the NBA, NFL, NHL and college teams. They were banned by the International Olympic Committee because they considered them performance enhancers. The vast majority of MLB players took these like they were M&M's. Jim Bouton made reference to them in his book Ball Four. (A very entertaining read that I recommend if you can get a copy).

These were not illegal to use at the time and were readily available. Should all HOF inductees since the '60's be questioned and investigated for amphetamine use? They did nothing wrong by baseball standards nor were they taking a substance deemed illegal by the DEA. They didn't break any laws but they did use a substance that supposedly enhanced their performance.

That's why I feel McGwire should be allowed in. The Andro he was using was readily available OTC. It was not banned by MLB or by the federal government at the time. In fact I don't think the fed's have banned it as of yet but I may be mistaken.

To me McGwire did nothing to make him ineligible for induction. He broke no laws. Fair is fair.

BTW ... Bonds tested positive for amphetamines last season. Of course, keeping with tradition, he blamed it on a teammate. What a classy guy that Bonds!

Brian

[RedWings]

I see your point, Brian. What McGwire did was not technically wrong at that time. And you bring up a great point with the greenies. (As well as a great point on Ball Four. Hilarious book..."and that, Norm, is a mother-effing curve ball").